sample="quota" bates="670576157" isource="bw" decade="1980" class="ui" date="19821010" Brown & Williamson Cigarette Image October 10, 1982 - 6:00 P.M. Tape #1 Page #1 Typist: BDM MOD: Tell me what you do and where you live, a little mini biography. ...My name is Mark Dean. I live out in Highland Park. I have two daughters, 8 and 4, and still married. Commodities trader mornings, and I run a plastic company in the afternoons. MOD: Other than that, you don't have any time at all, do you? ...Just this time. MOD: What do you trade? ...Gold and soybeans. MOD: That's two different - ...Yea. Basically, I've always been a grain trader, but the metals have started picking up, so - MOD: Metals are fascinating. ...Yea. It's like starting over again. MOD: Terrific. Good. And in the afternoon, a plastic factory? ...General manager. MOD: Uh - ...Injection molding. MOD: Okay. I always make it sound like I know what you're talking about. But I do know that injection molding you can always tell because it has that little thing at the bottom. ...That's right. MOD: One of the wonderful things about this job is that I learn things that under practically any other circumstances I would never have an opportunity to learn. About three weeks ago, I had a couple of sessions on air compressors. Prior to doing them, I had no idea what an air compressor was, but now I know that there are rotaries and reciprocals, and, blah, blah, blah. And I can throw around those words like a real pro. Still don't understand them, but I can throw the words. And who are you? ...I'm Tom. I'm married. Have three kids, 9, 10, 4. I work for United States Steel Corporation. MOD: Doing what kind of thing, Tom? ...I assemble their massive computer system. Test them out and engineer them. Make sure they run right, and do what they're supposed to do, you know. MOD: Having grown up in Pittsburgh, U.S. Steel is one of those things that are very close to my heart. ...Yea, I try to stay away from those idiots. ...(laughter) ...I do a lot of travelling, going from site to site, plant to plant. And sometimes, lately, been to Europe investigating to see what they got going in their processes. It's kind of fun I guess. I enjoy it. I enjoy the freedom I got. Enjoy you're your own boss. You are your own boss because my boss has no idea what I'm doing. MOD: And there's no way you're going to tell him. ...Wouldn't make any difference. He's understanding. He gets paid for managing. I live on the northwest side of Chicago. I've been in Chicago my whole life. I learned the hard way. I learned by tinkering. No formal education. Just started tinkering 15 years ago with things. I think I got my start when the micros came out. I was one of the first persons to realize the value it had, and go ahead of everybody else. I taught seminars on microcomputers. MOD: Terrific. Good, good, great. Who are you? ...rich. Rich Baraskewicz. I'm a police officer. Four children. Live on the northwest side. MOD: Tell me about your kids, Rich. Children. ...12, 9. Two boys, two girls, 3 and 1 . MOD: Balanced. Two boys, two girls. symmetry is there. In terms of being in the police department, is there a special area that you're in? ...West side of Chicago. MOD: And a special kind of detail, or? ...No. Patrol. MOD: Good. Living on the northwest side. ...Yes. MOD: Do you ever smile? ...Work the midnights and I've been up for about 36 hours. MOD: Oh my dear. Okay. I'll be gentle. Tell me about you. ...Ed Sutkis. Live on the northwest side. Have one daughter, 5 months old. MOD: Sleeping through the nights now. ...Yea. MOD: Thank God. ...I work for the city. I'm a truck driver. MOD: Good. What kind of truck? ...Garbage. MOD: A sanitation man. ...Right. MOD: Good. And a little girl five months. That's delightful. Tell me about you. ...My name is Pete MOD: Pete? Yea. MOD: I got a slight hearing problem. If I lean forward it's because - ...I live on the northwest side. Have four kids, 16, 14, 8 and 4. MOD: Two boys? ...I remembered. No. One boy, three girls. ...Born into it. MOD: Born into it? ...Born and married. ...Yea. I get the idea it's for show. People don't smoke Barclays because they like it. ...Yea. ...It's show. It's individualism there somehow. There's no experimentation. Barclay's safe. Nobody's going to laugh at you. Nobody's going to say you got a junky cigarette or you got good taste. It's just neutral. MOD: What are you thinking, Mark? What does this say to you? What kind of image? ...No image at all. It's similar to Carlton, but I've had feelings about that. I've seen, you know, as they came out and I have no image of them. They're just an ultra, an ultra super low tar. It's probably strong carrots and stuff inside there, you know. ...(laughter) ...I've smoked four of them. ...(inaudible) ...Yea. It's like carrot tops. I don't know what's in there, but I have no image of elegance. I know the name is a name of a bank, but I don't make the association. I see no reason why anybody who's in top management would be smok- ing them. MOD: If a Barclay smoker walked in the door, what would they look like? Who would they be? ...I don't know. My next door neighbor smokes these. MOD: You're frowning, Rich. What's going on in your head? ...The packaging itself with a little strip on it, subdued color to it, like old school ties maybe. English, very big on ties, the sash, the romantic sashes, along with the name, I guess, you know, if you really thought about it you could develop an image associated with upper crust. The word mobility or somebody's who has made it already. But other than that, I mean, I'd really have to sit there and think. ...Without someone else making comments, there's absolutely nothing to me. You got to push it to get the image they're talking about. That's my opinion. Push it to look for banks and bowler hats and all that. ...I would expect if you taste them, there's nothing there. ...That's for sure. ...It wouldn't surprise me to get into a very exclusive restaurant. See a gentleman sitting down, came in with a nice suit, conservative type suit on, and put a pack of those on the table. I would expect to see those rather than Winstons in that type of place because of the class that that might have with the name on the packaging. In other words, he's going more for style. He's going for an image rather than his own special taste. ...Phoney. MOD: Phoney? ...He's creating an image. He may be a phoney or what. He's creating an image with it. ...He'd smoke Winston's if he's real, right? ...I don't put phoney with him at all. ...I don't thin they even want to do it. ...He's not trying to impress anybody. ...Yea. ...He's netural. ...I don't think he's trying to impress anybody. He's trying to build himself up. Small confidence or something. I don't know. MOD: (inaudible) ...That's the impression. ...I wouldn't buy it. But the impression I got is, you know, from the ads and everything, if I were to walk around smoking those and then I should have a three-piece suit on. Wearing jeans and sneakers don't make it. ...Look at advertisements with those things. ...Never even heard of them. MOD: Never even heard of them? ...The way the pack is. It's kid of classy looking. Little crown or whatever. MOD: What goes on in your head, Dwight? ...Well, Barclay, I would think of a middle aged, well dressed conservative gentleman. Who probably serves on a board of a major corporation. Probably born well off, well educated, and not necessarily a phoney as much as has always had everything good in terms of clothes, car. Probably a mansion, large house, etc., etc. Just simply following through on a pattern that has already been set by his father. So, you know, very easily could have a walking cane, the derby, walking down London streets in the fog, you know with a Barclay. ...What are you trying to uncover? This is over, right? MOD: Yea. ...Okay. Tell us what one you're trying to do business with. MOD: I'm trying to do business, I'm trying to really map out different images. ...Can I guess what you smoke? ...What do you smoke? MOD: What would you guess? ...I'd say one of the Winstons. ...I'd say Barclay. ...I'd say Generic. ...(laughter) ...You're telling him. That's the last time you're going to be here. ...(talking together) You're going to be down the elevator shaft in a minute. ...Yea. MOD: Generics, huh? ...What kind you smoke? ...Benson and Hedges. ...No. MOD: Oh. ...Marlboro. ...No. ...I haven't seen them either. ...Called the shot. ...But you got those free, right? You didn't buy those, did you? MOD: You bet you. ...But before those you smoked Winston. ...You guys probably heard of death. ...(laughter) MOD: Before those I smoked Merit and before those I smoked Marlboro. ...Okay. Marlboro woman. ...Could you do with the tape back - MOD: Say that again. ...Cut down on your smoking or smoke away your cigarette. Because I'll tell you when I was sucking Kools down, I mean I sucked them down. A couple of packs a day, and now that I'm on a lighter cigarette like this, a pack a day. Because I weaned myself off of cigarettes. Especially now I went on midnights and you drive around all night and you always have a cigarette going. ...Right. ...I go off of them. I was off for six years. I don't see, we're off the tap now so I can say what I want. ...There you are. ...I think anybody who smokes a menthol cigarette has something missing. ...(laughter) MOD: I'm so glad you can feel candid. ...Right. ...I honestly believe than anybody who smokes those are a little phoney. The Carlton 120's and Barclays, nothing personal and Benson and Hedges and generics, they got a short in their brain. ...(laughter) ...There's something wrong somewhere. People who put that in their mouths ...Camels, you're talking about short stubby things, ...But you know what it is. ...(laughter) This is the ugliest package in the woman and man. The Barclays run a close second, but this is ugly. ...(talking together) ...I always thought it looked pretty good to me. ...What? ...Camels. ...It just looks ugly. I love the Parliaments pack. Maybe it's the blue color, the light and the dark blue and the white. They're ugly. But I get the idea that if I'm going to die of cancer, fine and well. You people are going to die of radiation when they got bombs, you know. I might as well go hog wild and live. Why do with a substitute. To me, it just doesn't make sense. And they taste better. I'm sorry, but if you ever smoked a Camel, you cannot go back to a little bitty cigarette. You just can't do it. ...They taste good, but (inaudible) ...That's what they got dentists for. Hell, let's face it. ...Toothpaste, dental floss, you know. ...I don't use no dental floss. I just pay a dentist to do it for me. MOD: Okay. I want to thank you all very much. You've been wonderfully helpful. This is, I've had a good time. And I hope you have too. ...Next time you do this, put a bottle of bourbon, a bottle of scotch. ...That's the next survey. ...Do a whiskey survey. ...There you go. MOD: Next time. ...(inaudible) You guys gave me beer. It hurt my feelings. Nothing bothers me. When you said beer, that hurt. That hurt. I hate beer and I hate whiskey. That just really turns me off, you know. You can call me a faggot, a slob, you know. When you said whiskey that was bad news. MOD: I want to thank you all very much. Kathy's at the desk She has your ...Okay. MOD: And I hope you all have a good evening. ...Try to. MOD: It was delightful. Thank you. Out that way. ...Okay. ...I watched a movie last night and I smoked decaffeinated cigarettes, whatever these are, and I drank wine. Does that make me weird? ...Have a nice evening. MOD: Thank you very much.